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muddocktor
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PostPosted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 16:26  Post subject: Snif ! Is Google quitting the project?
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Like the thread title says, has Google decided to not participate in the project any more? :( I found the following statement on the Google Compute web page:

Quote:
Thank you for your interest in Google Compute. The latest versions of the Google Toolbar do not support the Google Compute feature. If you would like to support the [email protected] project, please download the official [email protected] client.


I think it's a sad day for the project if Google is pulling out of the project, myself. :(


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Vijay Pande
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PostPosted: Sun 23 Oct, 2005 01:52  Post subject:  (No subject)
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Google compute supported FAH when it was at an early stage -- when FAH had ~10,000 active CPUs. At that time, a boost of 20,000 machines was very significant. Now, things are different. The FAH client is considerably more mature than it was 5 years ago and the project has a large number of active CPUs. The number of new clients joining Google compute was very low (most people opted for the FAH client instead) and so it didn't make sense to continue it. Indeed, the fraction of FAH clients through Google compute is relatively small. Also, the Google compute clients have certain hard limits (eg can only run the Tinker core and limited naming and team options). Due to all of these reasons, Google support has been minimal over the last few years and this is the natural conclusion of this.

While support from a company like Google is always good, the current formulation of Google compute doesn't quite make sense. We are considering alternate plans and proposals which might make more sense.

Finally, I should stress that this effects new toolbar clients. The old toolbar still works (to my understanding). Thus, there will be no new Google clients; however, there were very few new Google clients anyway. It's great that they have directed people to the FAH site and hopefully they will choose to run our client.


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7im
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PostPosted: Mon 24 Oct, 2005 22:44  Post subject:  (No subject)
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While it's nice that Google is pointing people in the right direction (Stanford), Google failed to mention the very deep chasm between switching from the Google client to the Stanford client. That chasm is Team # 446.

For instance, there is a small but steady stream of posted questions like this topic: http://forum.folding-community.org/viewtopic.php?t=13550&highlight=

Is there any way someone at Stanford can contact the staff at Google, and have them add a little extra info to that pointer back to Stanford? As in "If you switch clients, you need to switch team numbers as well..." or something more politically correct.

Maybe write a How To Switch FAQ, post it on the [email protected] page, and point the users at that? Thanks.


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Vijay Pande
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 00:05  Post subject:  (No subject)
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That's a good idea. We should have a "how to switch FAQ". Is there anything else anyone would add? They will likely post a link to the FAQ if we ask.


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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 02:42  Post subject:  (No subject)
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I've never used Google Compute, so what are some of the other differences between Google Compute and running the FAH client manually? Perhaps some of those differences should/could be explained?


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efishy
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 06:55  Post subject:  (No subject)
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There is known issue when you are using Stanford client and on team 446 (Google). There is inherit problem dealing with core downloads (Google team have different cores than Stanford general cores).


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codysluder
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 07:06  Post subject:  (No subject)
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jclu wrote:
I've never used Google Compute, so what are some of the other differences between Google Compute and running the FAH client manually? Perhaps some of those differences should/could be explained?


Like Vijay Pande said, google compute started when FAH was very young. The google client and the google core were frozen at that time; updates since that time have not been incorporated. For example, at that time there was only one core: Tinker. Google compute still only uses one core, which is fine because the google client only downloads WUs that use Tinker. Unfortunately, if you use teamnumber 446 with the regular FAH client, the only core you can download is Tinker, even though that regular FAH client can download WUs that need other cores.


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stanleyrec
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 14:23  Post subject: Cool (No subject)
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prof pande,

could i request that you make the stanford client (which i run exclusively) not pollute the queue.dat file.

the linux version is fine, the windows version pollutes queue.dat with a reference to compute.google.com. this, in my mind is the real problem.

seems like an easy fix. this to would remove the problem! anyone using a stanford client whould get a stanford core, regardless of the core.

and the reason for resistance to change for many folks is the stats issue. thats why i keep 446. all my stats under 1 group.

my apologies for harping on this. hope you can help!

stan


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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 15:20  Post subject: Cool (No subject)
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stanleyrec wrote:
prof pande,

could i request that you make the stanford client (which i run exclusively) not pollute the queue.dat file.

the linux version is fine, the windows version pollutes queue.dat with a reference to compute.google.com. this, in my mind is the real problem.

seems like an easy fix. this to would remove the problem! anyone using a stanford client whould get a stanford core, regardless of the core.

and the reason for resistance to change for many folks is the stats issue. thats why i keep 446. all my stats under 1 group.

my apologies for harping on this. hope you can help!

stan

What I have heard this is not so easy as you may think and you have to keep messing with the core issues until the Google Compute clients will officilly be dropped.


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Vijay Pande
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 16:38  Post subject:  (No subject)
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There will be no new Google compute clients, but the old ones will continue to work. Until the old ones are turned off -- and we currently do not plan to -- the current rules for how Google compute works will remain unchanged. One should not run the FAH client with the Google team number, as it leads to several conflicts.


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7im
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 17:53  Post subject:  (No subject)
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Vijay Pande wrote:
That's a good idea. We should have a "how to switch FAQ". Is there anything else anyone would add? They will likely post a link to the FAQ if we ask.


Thanks.

Please consider that, if you wanted to, you could use this same FAQ page again in the future.

How to Migrate From Client X to Client Y...

[email protected] to [email protected] (consolidate existing info)
Google Compute to Stanford (needed now)
Stanford to/add Stanford GPU (hopefully soon)
BOINC to (anything else... ;))

As for the content, just lay out the facts, and let the user make the choice to switch or not. If they must keep that team number, they will have to keep that client type for a while. If the clients and servers can't be combined, or the code modified to permit a more graceful migration, then maybe a one time exception to a points transfer might be considered. Thanks again.




Last edited by 7im on Tue 25 Oct, 2005 22:35; edited 1 time in total
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stanleyrec
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 21:24  Post subject: Cool (No subject)
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7im,

Quote:
As for the content, just lay out the facts, and let the user make the choice to switch or not. If they must keep that team number, they will have to keep that client type for a while. If the clients and servers can't be combined, or the code modified to permit a more graceful migration, then maybe a one time exception to a points transfer might be considered. Thanks again.


i think you offer a good compromise on the issue... the possibility for allowing for xfering points when a person moves from google to a different team to avoid the 446 issues.

i know this could be a PITA, but that is the reason many of us ex-Googler's are reluctant to switch teams. we want to keep the points nicely bundled together. 8O


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Ivoshiee
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 21:53  Post subject: Cool (No subject)
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stanleyrec wrote:
7im,

Quote:
As for the content, just lay out the facts, and let the user make the choice to switch or not. If they must keep that team number, they will have to keep that client type for a while. If the clients and servers can't be combined, or the code modified to permit a more graceful migration, then maybe a one time exception to a points transfer might be considered. Thanks again.


i think you offer a good compromise on the issue... the possibility for allowing for xfering points when a person moves from google to a different team to avoid the 446 issues.

i know this could be a PITA, but that is the reason many of us ex-Googler's are reluctant to switch teams. we want to keep the points nicely bundled together. 8O

Historically the point moving between groups has not been allowed. I am not sure anyone can make solid case to justify this even this time.


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PostPosted: Tue 25 Oct, 2005 23:09  Post subject:  (No subject)
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There's another thread showing a new problem. http://forum.folding-community.org/viewtopic.php?t=13550

Not only does the new toolbar drop support for google compute, their website is no longer distributing the original google version of core_65. If you already have it you can continue to use it, but you're really stuck. You can downloaded one from Stanford only if you used a team number other than 446 when the last WU was downloaded. Once you download a WU with team 446 set no downloads are possible - - that WU can only use cores that you already have.


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SherrieB2
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Nov, 2005 09:10  Post subject: Question If I switch from Google, can I keep my client name & poi
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If I switch from Google, can I keep my client name & points? How would I go about switching? What are the benefits?
Sherrie B.


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